Sunday, January 20, 2008
Significant Human Remains
I have no doubt that Hassan Nasrallah can claim victory over Israel in the 2006 war on Lebanon, but to boast that he is in possession of Israeli soldier body parts (possibly to barter) is repulsive: “I am not talking about insignificant bodily remains. I tell the Israelis we have heads, hands, legs of your soldiers. We also have a nearly intact cadaver from the head down to the pelvis." Nasrallah would have been much better off burying those body parts, perceived as significant or insignificant, affording them the respect even enemy soldiers should be given in death – even if we believe our enemy does not reciprocate that respect. Honorable men of war should not have to advertise possession of hands and heads.
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28 person(s) discussed this post:
I agree; his words are provoking and meant to be provoking, to the Israelis and to the other Lebanese people and parties. He has some serious issues when it comes to his discourse; he refers to the enemy as "Jews" forgetting that our problem is mainly Zionism AS colonial ideology, not with the religion of the enemy.
So yes, we should remain respectful of human values even during war, this is not idealism, this is the discourse should be practiced by those who're constantly call for justice and for freedom.
Not to mistake my comment as anti-resistance, I am selective about resistance and though July war was beneficial on many scales, on internal Israeli policies, but the Lebanese lost the battle.
But on burring the bodies or the remains, I think their importance come from the potentiality of exchanging them with the Lebanese prisoners, dead or alive, I think the remains should go to their families, and so must the Lebanese prisoners.
That was totally uncalled for, in my opinion. Given that Israel is ignoring the living Israeli soldiers that are held by Hezbollah and not negotiating, saying what he said about the remains hurts the cause much more than it helps!
Lujayn, don't pick up on the guy please. Or at least consider that his 'repulsive' speech could have been his own way of trying to throw some horror in the hearts of his enemy. Maybe this little reminder of his would make the Israelis think twice before presuming their killing frenzy in Gaza (which had claimed hundreds of souls and numerous body parts of innocent kids in the last couple of weeks alone…).
Now of course somebody will come and say that Nassralla would be doing the Palestinian cause a lot of damage. And that the international community would find excuses for the Israelis being the savages they are when they hear such talks form Nassrallah…..bla…bla…bla…
After all, it's easy to set and opine in the coziness of our safe and well-lit homes…
DJ, throw some horror into the heart of his enemies? Nasrallah did that throughout the war on Lebanon, he doesnt have to peddle body parts!
عندنا ايدين
عندنا اجرين
عندنا روس
عندنا صدورة
Body parts arent going to scare the Israelis. And they know perfectly well what he is in possession of, so negotiations to exchange prisoners for body parts can still take place discreetly. I didnt say the Israelis havent killed and maimed indiscrimately, I said Nasrallah should not have fallen to this level.
Nasrallah's butcher shop peddling has nothing to do with stopping Palestinian suffering. It has everything to do with remaining a "significant" figure in this conflict.
I think we ourselves should stop and think that maybe the Palestinians would like safe and well lit homes as well, rather than hold them responsible for keeping the torch burning for resistance while we sit in safe and well lit homes.
Ihsan, while I agree this was uncalled for, I dont think Israel is ignoring the living Israeli soldier - I think they're very much interested in getting Shalit back. And even with the body parts that Hezbollah supposedly has, they can still be used to barter the release of Lebanese and Palestinian prisoners, but I found the manner with which Nasrallah announced the issue repulsive.
Golaniya, right on! I am not totally naive as to think we will all run around loving each other and exchange flowers, but human values should not be sacrificed, even if the ultimate cause is just.
Furthermore, we of all people should be very wary of painting all Jews as Zionists. After all, in the mind of most of the world, Islam is synonymous with terrorism.
As to burying the bodies, I dont mean for us to hold on to them forever, but to afford them temporary burial until they are given back to their families.
instead of critisizing the enemy , we are critisizing the resistance.
instead of selecting from the enemies' speach, we are selecting from the resistance.
when someone leaves his land and goes to step on others' land in the mean of occupying it , he deserved what ever happens to him.
i will save my human feelings for the remains of the lebanese and the palastinians and the iraqis and those who are dying in gaza now.
these remains worth lives , lives of youths and childrens, awaiting in the israeli jails for any israeli or any part of his body to be captured to get free.
burying them is to bury the hope of the prisoners' families.
with all my respect.
I agree fully with Lujayn. Fully. Not only is Nasrallah casting an unwelcome, uncivilized shadow over the cause of Palestine and Lebanon, but he also gives a poor image of Islam. As does his constant reference to Jews, rather than to Zionists or the state of Israel.
Finding Nasrallah's words repulsive, as I did, in no way lessens our denunciation of Israel's savagery, inhumanity and immorality - something we do on a daily basis, in our personal and our professional lives.
Lujayn, I've actually lost all reliance on the international community long time ago.
What have we got from the international public opinion?
Absolutely nothing…
There will always be a powerful media arm that will tarnish our image, no matter how hard we try to appease the power that be, so in this context I say hell, Nasserallah has probably sent a chill of fear through all the IDF reserves by his peddling. I don't necessarily have to like it, but it is a good tactic of psychological ware-fare….
I am sure the Palestinians would like to have the small amenities in life the rest of us can afford, so please tell me how can I help them to have it?
Fully agree Lujayn and second what Rime said. Why is it that we have to point to the enemy's savage behavior to justify our own? why can't we be self-critical without being called sellouts? If we think we are better than they are, then lets behave that way.
These are remains of dead human beings that we are talking about.
Thanks Rime, Abu Kareem, there is always this insinuation that we must stand “saf wahed” in the face of the enemy, regardless of who else is standing besides us that in that row and no matter what their approach is.
Which brings me to the point both DJ and Omniah are making somehow. That our humanity is contingent on the humanity of our enemy. If they’re monsters then we can be monsters too.
DJ, it’s not about relying on the international community. To me its about holding on to my humanity DESPITE the injustice of everything that happens to me. It’s the only way I can see myself as believing in this cause. It’s like we were talking about when you posted about Ghandi. Ideally, you said, we would be non-violent but in the reality of our world, it wasn’t always possible. But that’s exactly my point. It has to start somewhere. If I keep saying that humanity isn’t going to get me anywhere when my enemy is running roughshod over it, then my humanity is just a value that I pull out of the bag whenever it’s convenient.
DJ, do you think I know what to do for the Palestinians? I just am tired of every tom, dick and harry firing off heroic rhetoric about the Palestinians. You and I both know that 22 Arab regimes regularly “support” the Palestinian resistance in their speeches but nobody actually gives a shit. Meaningless filler for empty speeches. Let’s not forget Saddam and the millions who thought he did something for the Palestinians and the Arabs. Its just political posturing and I believe Nasrallah is doing it too now. His antics in Lebanon have helped (along with the other side) to bring the country to the brink of chaos. Bringing the prisoners home to a country he helped to divide isn’t necessarily a heroic feat.
Lujayn,
I ignored your post the first time I read it as I considered it just an opinion - but I thought I'd come back to see what the discussion turned into. I have to say I'm most disappointed with some of the comments made here, namely Rime's and Abu Kareem's, as they have demonstrated the kind of callous remark one can expect from a self important and smug Syrian expatriate "nouveau-elite" who are upset with the unfashionable and "uncivilised" likes of Nasrallah who pee on everyones parade and refuse to surrender to occupation.
Pray tell Ihsan, what do you know about the cause for you to know whether it hurts?
Rime, what is "civilised" for you? What is the acceptable face of Islam? How exactly do you think your everyday "denunciations" expressed so admirably in your everyday working life - will liberate Palestine?
Abu Kareem,
You've been reading far too much Nietzsche...
Lujayn,
Humanism is a noble sentiment, but you fail where it fails in that your comments and insight are devoid of any political or historical context. Because of this, the nature of the questions you ask yourself about something like the Israeli occupation are misguided. Debating these points with you is like trying to catch a frightened hen, you end up miserable, muddy and - empty handed.
Oops! Sorry guys, I reread my comments and I'm a bit harsh at times. My apologies, I'll buy you a coffee sometime to make it up for you :)
Bringing the prisoners home to a country he helped to divide isn’t necessarily a heroic feat.
Lujayn, I have a feeling that your disapproving of Hassan Naserallah extends beyond his unduly remarks. The statement which you've made above is more political than it is humane. I am guessing that you were not a fan of the guy even before he made the statement in question.
Of course, there is a world of difference between admonishing a leader (with a great track record like Sayed Hassan) when he does something that is not up to our or his standards, and between reproaching him fully because we don't approve of his method altogether…..
Wassim, I don’t think humanism needs to justify itself to Israeli occupation and mass-murder, Arab violence and oppression, or any other injustice. It’s a value that seems pretty darn ok, if only people would stop looking for more expedient ways, like violence, to get ahead.
The rest of your post doesn’t deserve a response.
Wassim,
Your apology won't fly. You either meant what you said or admit that your tongue is faster than your brain. Either way, it doesn't look good. Throwing around meaningless pejorative labels like "smug expatriate nouveau elite" is no way to argue or debate a point. What you haven't told us if you find it acceptable that a leader barter with body parts of a dead soldier.
Problem is, you never seem to tell us what you are for, just what you are against.
So this smug, neo-intellectual expatriate unlike another equally smug retro-intellectual expatriate bases his opinion on real life experiences. No, age certainly does not guarantee wisdom but it sure helps.
My revulsion at this issue of human remains comes from having lived through the brutality the Lebanese civil war as a doctor in training. I have had to pick up many a body part in my time. This issue is not an abstraction to me, this is real. It is not Nietzsche.
With the brutality, much of it among people who are supposed to be brothers, came disillusionment with all the seductive ideologies of liberation, resistance and social justice that were bandied about at the time.
So Wassim, smug, I certainly am not. skeptical? definitely, of any leader, like Nasrallah, with unchecked powers, who creates this false air of invincibility and infallibility among his supporters.
Yes, DJ, my disapproval of Nasrallah goes beyond the recent remarks. I don’t see any reason to be ashamed of not being a fan of this guy. I stopped being a fan when he dragged an entire country into a war not of their choosing to increase his stakes in the Lebanese political game. He didn’t give a damn that a large number of Lebanese citizens did not believe in his brand of politics and resistance – he still imposed his will on them. I do not call that leadership.
As for being critical of his remarks and his approach, I must have missed the moment he became God and joined the ranks of the other infallible leaders we seem to be blessed with.
Abu Kareem,
I am sorry that your first visit to my blog was marred by a totally uncalled for personal attack. I always enjoy your posts, and relate to many of the things you write about. I guess its the self important and smug Syrian expatriate "nouveau-elite" in us that brings us together ;)
Abu Kareem, you are an honorable man, your views has lots of good values in them. I can't dare question your experiences or the convictions that come along with them…
But you are, just like Lujayn, making a political point, albeit on a basis of humane reasons.
If we are to put things in context, I'd say that Hassan Nasserallah is a great leader. He emerged in a very turbulent era and was, single-handedly, able to revolutionize his resistance party. He made an example by encouraging his own son to fight and die for the cause. This is not your typical glorified-be-Allah Arab leader with 'unchecked powers'.
In fact, those unchecked powers should vouch for him; because he never seems to have used them except to protect the essence of his movement as a resistance. In other words, to protect his ass from the warmongers and the mercenaries who have filled the Lebanese political arena to the brim.
Now of course, if you measure him or his party against an ideal metric, then yeah, they are not perfect, far from it… but this is the middle east, and this is the best I could see so far, albeit a sectarian and ultra-religious movement…
Well Lujayn, he's not God, he makes mistakes and commits lots of 'thonoob' as well…
But when he is not committing mistakes; he is/was/has been doing great things. This is where we differ ya Lujayn, you seem to despise the guy altogether, to the extent of holding him responsible for the July 2006 war….even though in the outset of your post, you've acknowledged his right to celebrate this very war as a victory…
DJ, I dont despise him. In fact, until that point, he was about the only guy I had any respect for. However, I saw no justification for Hezbollah's foray into Israel to kidnap soldiers. Yes, Nasrallah may not have expected the Israeli reaction, but in war, anything is possible. Leaders like him should have calculated the risks better. We cannot make excuses for his lack of insight and miscalculations, especially in light of an enemy that has never shied from violent aggression.
I did acknowledge his victory in the war - after all, nobody expected him to hold back Israel for so long, especially Israel. A tactical victory for sure. A loss on every other front.
Honestly, DJ, I think we should start looking for other role-models. We deserve better.
Honestly Lujayn, Hassan Nasserllah is not my role-model, he just happens to be a leader that I respect. The destruction which was inflicted upon Lebanon can only be attributed to the aggressiveness of Israel. Yes, there might have been a calculative mistake on Nasserallah's part as to what the reaction would be on the national, pan Arab, and international fronts. Lot of people chickened at the day of the foray if you remember, and some hurried to elude themselves of every moral and national responsibility that is there. Even his own country men and electoral alliances in the government- who had vowed under the government's accord to protect the Moqawama and its operations. I think it was quite legitimate of him to announce them as political adversaries and seek out of the government ( I am talking about Hariri and co)…
On a lighter note, let me tell you this little story: did you know there was a bar fight in Dubai during the Eid Al Adha break between two bunches of Lebanese guys?
Well it started because one guy maligned Hassan Nasserallah not knowing that there were some staunch supporters of him in the bar. The fight was resolved amicably (thanks to some friends of yours truly); the guys from both sides kissed 'moustaches' and made up. I just thought it was funny because it shows that Hezbollah's popularity is expanding amongst booze hitters. :-)
I am on a constant lookout for a role-model, but the harvest is very scarce nowadays. If you found any, please let me know….
People angered by my defense of Palestinians have called me a lot of things, as have people annoyed by my attacks of the Syrian regime, of numerous American administration, and of religious extremism.
But I've never been called a self important and smug Syrian expatriate "nouveau-elite" before. Congratulations Wassim, how original. Perhaps you should have elaborated on how Nasrallah's words are going to liberate Palestine.
I feel that Abu Kareem and Lujayn have more than eloquently responded, allowing me once more to agree with them.
DJ, the Lebanese government sanctioned the "muqawama" on its own land, not its unprovoked attack on Israel. Before you call me a Lebanese government sympathizer, I most definitely am not! :)) In this one instance, they were in the right and Hezbollah was in the wrong. But I fully agree that the destruction of Lebanon was the responsibility of Israel. The decision to start the conflict was Hezbollah's.
As for your bar brawl, I believe it! This particular "drinker" used to think highly of Nasrallah too. My hand in your zinar, if you discover a new role model, please share :))
Firstly I'd like to apologise for my smug nouveau-elite and self important Syrian comment, as Abu Kareem says, my tongue does fly faster than my brain at times so I apologise for that remark so I hold my hands up.
Abu Kareem,
I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'false air of invincibility'? Whilst the man is certainly not infallible, he or those advising him, are masters of politics and extremely cunning. If you look closely at the region, at who is losing out the most, what do you see? Everywhere, America's vassals are on the backfoot, from Lebanon to Iraq to Saudi Arabia. So this sense of superiority is justified in some very real events which have turned the tables in the region. I agree that the body parts speech was grim, but I don't think it's unacceptable and I can't say I'd rule something like that out. There are prisoners held by Israel and these need to come back. No question.
Lujayn,
Humanism is interesting, but it is not what needs to justify itself against these things, but rather the person wielding it should. When somebody has taken over your house, appealing to their humanism or preserving your own will not help you get it back. I don't think we should be ashamed of what we have to do to get our rights back basically. The shame and injustice have already been perpetrated - طفح الكيل بمعنى آخر
Rime,
I'm still not sure whose standard of civilisation you are appealing to when you refer to his "shadow". It is ironic that this human civilisation, if this is what you infer, is the cause if not the supporter of the injustice in our region. Are we expected to offer our necks (figuratively speaking) on it's altar and give up everything so that we can be accepted into it's exalted list of members? The Arab's are not without their faults, but now that somebody like Nasrallah has managed to actually push back the bully, we are angry with N because the bully takes it out on the weak? It's the bully that should be ashamed, not the person standing up to them.
I don't like to make noise for the sake of making noise but you wouldn't blame a rape victim for castrating her attacker. In fact, the public sense of morality within the culture industry we inhabit implies that this is an acceptable sentiment one can feel. This same culture industry makes supporting Nasrallah's claims unacceptable and unfortunately, I feel most of you have conformed to it. The problem then becomes one of rejecting this imposed morality even if it coincides at times with most sentiments you have of right and wrong, since it can cloud our judgement at times like this when it is most crucial.
Wassim, why on earth are you assuming that by "civilized" I mean the West? What do you think I am, March 14?
You're beating around the bush or bringing other big issues into the argument, which was purely about Nasrallah's words about body parts. Nobody – or at least not I - was initially discussing his cause, his past actions, his honesty or anything else. No religion or "ideal" civilization would condone bartering human remains.
Therefore, please refrain from making big statements about most of us having “conformed” to some culture industry of which you do not approve. I do not abide by an imposed morality, as you put it, but by the same morality which makes me speak out against injustice and what I perceive to be unethical. Just because Nasrallah is fighting against Israel doesn’t grant him immunity from criticism when he deserves it – especially when he speaks in the name of Islam, as he usually does. In fact, it is precisely when people like him (who otherwise lead just battles) fall to a level below their usual one that we are disappointed.
I think we’ve pretty much covered the subject, don't you think?
Wow..
I certainly missed one heck of a debate here!..
I guess it will come as a surprise to no-one who reads my posts and comments that I am FULLY in agreement with Lujayn, Abu Kareem, and Rime..
Wassim, take my advice.. read what you write BEFORE you click the 'Publish Your Comment' button..
Boy, I so wish I came in earlier!..
I have been away from this blog for a while.. and reading your comments I realize I am missing on a lot.
The one thing that terrifies me most in this moment of time we live in (both in this region and the world as a whole i guess) is the limited space we have for disagreement and for criticism. What if one disagrees with Nasrallah's way of talking about body parts? Does it make one less patriotic? anti Palestinian? How are we going to reach any sort of "liberation" without the ability to engage in healthy criticism? .. and again on what bases do we judge the actions of leaders, is it based on the level to which they are opposed to Israel or some set of core values that we are developing through our resistance? If we don't give enough space for criticism, we are then still in the "La sawt ya3lou fawk sawt el-boundoikiyah" stage, and all that produces is a bunch of dictators who think they are above making mistakes.
Thanks Lujayn for this post, I wish Nasrallah gets to read it.
This may sound very tragic Lujayn, but I can't help it; you've been tagged. Check out my blog for more info…
My friend.. You've been tagged!..
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